Scusate, so che magari potrebbe essere una domanda stupida ma non si sa mai...
Per caso gli integratori di B12 interferiscono in qualche modo con l'assunzione della pillola anticoncezionale?
Grazie mille,
Carmen.
Vitamina B12
Questa cosa non la sapevo. E' interessante.flippy ha scritto:E poi, tanto per completezza... Agli animali da allevamento viene fatta assumere pure a loro B12 di sintesi, perche' vivendo in condizioni non naturali, non ne avrebbero abbastanza. Quindi il tuo amico la assume lo stesso, solo attraverso un tramite.
ciao
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Marina Berati
- Messaggi: 478
- Iscritto il: mar ott 05, 2004 9:08 am
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flippy
Ciao, Marina. Questa cosa l'ho letta su parecchi siti e ho sempre dato per scontato che fosse vera... Adesso pero' non mi ricordo dove l'ho trovata esattamente, ho fatto una ricerca veloce con google ma ovviamente non l'ho ritrovata...
Se puoi portare ancora un po' di pazienza, quando ho piu' tempo faccio una cosa piu' accurata, ok?
Ciao
Se puoi portare ancora un po' di pazienza, quando ho piu' tempo faccio una cosa piu' accurata, ok?
Ciao
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flippy
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Marina Berati
- Messaggi: 478
- Iscritto il: mar ott 05, 2004 9:08 am
Basta il link, grazie flippy!
Comunque, a ben pensarci, anche se non prendessero la B12, gli animali prendono (cioe': danno loro!) un sacco di sostanze chimiche e farmaci, quindi, chi mangia alimenti animali perche' e' piu' naturale non prendere "cose chimiche" (che poi la B12 non e' che sia una "cosa chimica", ma e' sintetizzata da naturalissimi batteri :-) ), in realta' ottiene l'effetto contrario, perche' di "cose chimiche" gli animali d'allevamento ne prendono in quantita' industriali!
Non avevo mai pensato a questo aspetto, che e' effettivamente da da far notare...
Ciao,
Marina
Comunque, a ben pensarci, anche se non prendessero la B12, gli animali prendono (cioe': danno loro!) un sacco di sostanze chimiche e farmaci, quindi, chi mangia alimenti animali perche' e' piu' naturale non prendere "cose chimiche" (che poi la B12 non e' che sia una "cosa chimica", ma e' sintetizzata da naturalissimi batteri :-) ), in realta' ottiene l'effetto contrario, perche' di "cose chimiche" gli animali d'allevamento ne prendono in quantita' industriali!
Non avevo mai pensato a questo aspetto, che e' effettivamente da da far notare...
Ciao,
Marina
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Marco Valussi
- Messaggi: 1770
- Iscritto il: mer ott 06, 2004 8:04 am
- Località: Verona
- Contatta:
Ecco qualche articolo...
Fate of supplementary B-vitamins in the gastrointestinal tract of dairy cows.
Santschi DE, Berthiaume R, Matte JJ, Mustafa AF, Girard CL
J Dairy Sci. 2005 Jun ; 88(6): 2043-54
Four lactating Holstein cows equipped with ruminal, duodenal, and ileal cannulas were used in 2 studies to evaluate the disappearance of supplementary B-vitamins before and from the small intestine. The cows were fed a total mixed ration with chromic oxide in 12 daily meals. Each study consisted of a control (no vitamin supplementation) and a treatment period (with vitamin supplementation). Amounts of vitamins (mg/d) supplemented in studies 1 and 2, respectively, were: thiamin: 300 and 10; riboflavin: 1600 and 2.0; niacin: 12,000 and 600; vitamin B6: 800 and 34; biotin: 20 and 0.02; folic acid: 2600 and 111; vitamin B12: 500 and 0.4. In study 1, vitamins were added to the feed 5 d before and during the 4-d collection period. In study 2, vitamins were infused postruminally 1 d before and during the 4-d collection period. Substantial disappearance before the duodenal cannula was noted in study 1 (67.8% thiamin, 99.3% riboflavin, 98.5% nicotinamide, 41.0% pyridoxine, 45.2% biotin, 97.0% folic acid, and 62.9% vitamin B12). Except for nicotinamide and folate, there was almost no disappearance of postruminally infused vitamins before the duodenal cannula (study 2), suggesting extensive ruminal destruction or use. Apparent intestinal absorption values differed greatly among vitamins, but the proportion of vitamins disappearing from the small intestine was not negatively influenced by supplementation. Except for riboflavin and niacin, absolute amounts disappearing from the small intestine were greater during the treatment than the control periods, suggesting that B-vitamin supply in dairy cows is increased by supplementation, although losses in the rumen are extensive.
Effects of B vitamin injections on plasma B vitamin concentrations of feed-restricted beef calves infected with bovine herpesvirus-1.
Dubeski PL, Owens FN, Song WO, Coburn SP, Mahuren JD
J Anim Sci. 1996 Jun ; 74(6): 1358-66
For nonruminants, stress and disease greatly increase requirements for vitamin B6, folic acid, pantothenic acid, and ascorbate. The effects of feed restriction, virus infection, and vitamin injections on plasma concentrations of B vitamins critical to the immune response were evaluated. Twelve beef steer calves, 6 to 8 mo of age, were fed below maintenance for 17 d and deprived of food for 3 d during a 20-d period after weaning. They then were inoculated intranasally with live attenuated bovine herpesvirus-1 (BHV-1). Six calves received saline injections and six received injections of a B vitamin mixture and ascorbate every 48 h for 14 d before and 14 d after inoculation. A mild respiratory infection developed in all calves 4 to 5 d after inoculation. In control calves, restricted intake and food deprivation decreased plasma vitamin B6 and pantothenate and increased vitamin B12 but did not affect folic acid and ascorbate concentrations. Vitamin injections increased plasma concentrations of vitamin B6, folic acid, vitamin B12, pantothenic acid, and ascorbate (P < .002). Plasma concentrations of vitamin B6, vitamin B12, pantothenic acid, and ascorbate, but not folic acid, were markedly reduced in all calves during the BHV-1 infection (P = .001). The vitamin B6, pantothenic acid, vitamin B12, and ascorbate status of stressed calves may affect their immune response to vaccination or infection.
Vitamin B12 administration for milk fat synthesis in lactating dairy cows fed a low fiber diet.
Croom WJ, Rakes AH, Linnerud AC, Ducharme GA, Elliot JM
J Dairy Sci. 1981 Jul ; 64(7): 1555-60
Thirty lactating Holstein cows were in two groups in a study of effects of vitamin B12 injections on milk fat synthesis. All cows were fed a normal fiber diet for the first 28 days after calving and then adjusted gradually to a low fiber diet over the next 28 days. After adjustment to the low fiber diet, in a single reversal trail, cows received either 150 mg of vitamin B12 in the form of hydroxocobalamin intramuscularly every 7 days for 21 days or no treatment for 21 days. Daily milk yield (kg), percent milk fat, and milk fat yield (g) for the normal fiber, low fiber adjustment, low fiber control, and low fiber plus vitamin B12 treatments were 29.6, 3.59, 1192; 31.5, 2.85, 840; 28.0, 2.58, 715; and 28.8, 2.65, 760. Injections of vitamin B12 did not correct the milk fat depression associated with the low fiber diets. In addition, there was no consistent relationship between blood B12 and milk fat production. Milk fat production was highly correlated with molar percent acetate in the rumen .63 and with blood acetate concentration .74.
Dietary B vitamin needs of strains of pigs with high and moderate lean growth.
Stahly TS, Williams NH, Lutz TR, Ewan RC, Swenson SG
J Anim Sci. 2007 Jan ; 85(1): 188-95
Ten sets of 5 littermate pigs from each of 2 genetic strains were utilized to determine the impact of the dietary concentration of 5 B vitamins (riboflavin, niacin, pantothenic acid, cobalamin, and folacin) on growth from 9 to 28 kg of BW in pigs with high or moderate capacity for lean growth. All pigs (penned individually) were reared via a segregated, early weaning scheme, so that the lean growth potential of each strain could be expressed. The basal diet provided the 5 test vitamins at concentrations of total and estimated bioavailability equivalent to a minimum of 100 and 70%, respectively, of their estimated requirements (NRC, 1998) for 5- to 10-kg pigs. At a BW of 9 +/- 0.9 kg, pigs within each litter were allotted to the basal diet supplemented with sources of the 5 test vitamins equivalent to an additional 0, 100, 200, 300, or 400% (bioavailable) of the NRC requirements. Pigs from the high lean strain consumed less feed (P 470% of NRC, 1998) vs. moderate (270%) lean strain. Based on these data, the dietary needs for 1 or more of the 5 B vitamins are greater than current NRC (1998) estimates, particularly in pigs expressing a high rate of lean tissue growth. The greater need for these vitamins is not associated with greater dietary energy intake or body energy accretion rate but is potentially due to shifts in the predominant metabolic pathways.
Effects of reducing dietary protein, methionine, choline, folic acid, and vitamin B12 during the late stages of the egg production cycle on performance and eggshell quality.
Keshavarz K
Poult Sci. 2003 Sep ; 82(9): 1407-14
A series of four experiments was conducted to determine whether-shell quality during the late stages of egg production can be improved by using diets that are effective in reducing egg size. The experiments involved dietary manipulation of protein, methionine, choline, folic acid, and vitamin B12. In experiment 1, reducing dietary protein in combination of reducing the dietary methionine and choline or this diet without supplemental folic acid and vitamin B12 resulted in reduced egg weight and improved shell quality. However, egg production also was drastically reduced. In experiment 2, reducing the dietary level of methionine, without adding supplemental choline, folic acid, and vitamin B12 reduced egg size and improved shell quality, but egg production was reduced as well. In this experiment reducing the dietary methionine without supplemental folic acid and vitamin B12 reduced egg size and improved shell quality with no adverse effect on egg production. In experiment 3, reducing the dietary level of methionine and choline or reducing the dietary level of choline, folic acid, and vitamin B12 reduced egg size and improved shell quality without adverse effects on egg production. On the other hand, reducing dietary methionine, folic acid, vitamin B12, and supplemental choline reduced egg weight and improved shell quality but lowered egg production. In experiment 4, reducing dietary methionine together with reducing choline and vitamin B12 reduced egg size and improved shell quality with no adverse effect on egg production. The results of this series of experiments generally indicate that certain manipulations of the combination of methionine, choline, folic acid, and vitamin B12 have the potential to reduce egg weight and improve shell quality without affecting egg production during the latter stages of the egg production cycle.
Vitamin B12 responses to cobalt pellets in beef cows.
Judson GJ, McFarlane JD, Mitsioulis A, Zviedrans P
Aust Vet J. 1997 Sep ; 75(9): 660-2
OBJECTIVE: To assess the effectiveness of cobalt pellets in maintaining adequate vitamin B12 in beef cows on pasture of low cobalt content. DESIGN: A field experiment in a herd grazing cobalt deficient pasture. ANIMALS: Mature Murray Grey cows. PROCEDURE: Cows were given a single oral dose of 0, 1, 2 or 4 cobalt pellets (30 g pellets containing 30% by weight cobaltic oxide) with a selenium pellet and a grub screw. Samples of blood, liver, faeces and milk for chemical analysis were collected at intervals over a period of 2 years after treatment. RESULTS: A single cobalt pellet raised liver vitamin B12 concentration of cows above that of untreated cows for at least 28 weeks, and 2 or 4 pellets for 57 weeks. Plasma vitamin B12 concentration was an unreliable indicator of the effectiveness of cobalt pellet therapy. Milk vitamin B12 and faecal cobalt concentrations increased in response to cobalt pellet therapy. CONCLUSION: These studies show that one cobalt pellet will prevent vitamin B12 inadequacy in beef cows for between 28 and 57 weeks; two or four pellets will prevent inadequacy for 57 to 75 weeks. Milk vitamin B12 concentration may be a useful indicator of the effectiveness of cobalt pellets in increasing the vitamin B12 supply in lactating cows.
Santschi DE, Berthiaume R, Matte JJ, Mustafa AF, Girard CL
J Dairy Sci. 2005 Jun ; 88(6): 2043-54
Four lactating Holstein cows equipped with ruminal, duodenal, and ileal cannulas were used in 2 studies to evaluate the disappearance of supplementary B-vitamins before and from the small intestine. The cows were fed a total mixed ration with chromic oxide in 12 daily meals. Each study consisted of a control (no vitamin supplementation) and a treatment period (with vitamin supplementation). Amounts of vitamins (mg/d) supplemented in studies 1 and 2, respectively, were: thiamin: 300 and 10; riboflavin: 1600 and 2.0; niacin: 12,000 and 600; vitamin B6: 800 and 34; biotin: 20 and 0.02; folic acid: 2600 and 111; vitamin B12: 500 and 0.4. In study 1, vitamins were added to the feed 5 d before and during the 4-d collection period. In study 2, vitamins were infused postruminally 1 d before and during the 4-d collection period. Substantial disappearance before the duodenal cannula was noted in study 1 (67.8% thiamin, 99.3% riboflavin, 98.5% nicotinamide, 41.0% pyridoxine, 45.2% biotin, 97.0% folic acid, and 62.9% vitamin B12). Except for nicotinamide and folate, there was almost no disappearance of postruminally infused vitamins before the duodenal cannula (study 2), suggesting extensive ruminal destruction or use. Apparent intestinal absorption values differed greatly among vitamins, but the proportion of vitamins disappearing from the small intestine was not negatively influenced by supplementation. Except for riboflavin and niacin, absolute amounts disappearing from the small intestine were greater during the treatment than the control periods, suggesting that B-vitamin supply in dairy cows is increased by supplementation, although losses in the rumen are extensive.
Effects of B vitamin injections on plasma B vitamin concentrations of feed-restricted beef calves infected with bovine herpesvirus-1.
Dubeski PL, Owens FN, Song WO, Coburn SP, Mahuren JD
J Anim Sci. 1996 Jun ; 74(6): 1358-66
For nonruminants, stress and disease greatly increase requirements for vitamin B6, folic acid, pantothenic acid, and ascorbate. The effects of feed restriction, virus infection, and vitamin injections on plasma concentrations of B vitamins critical to the immune response were evaluated. Twelve beef steer calves, 6 to 8 mo of age, were fed below maintenance for 17 d and deprived of food for 3 d during a 20-d period after weaning. They then were inoculated intranasally with live attenuated bovine herpesvirus-1 (BHV-1). Six calves received saline injections and six received injections of a B vitamin mixture and ascorbate every 48 h for 14 d before and 14 d after inoculation. A mild respiratory infection developed in all calves 4 to 5 d after inoculation. In control calves, restricted intake and food deprivation decreased plasma vitamin B6 and pantothenate and increased vitamin B12 but did not affect folic acid and ascorbate concentrations. Vitamin injections increased plasma concentrations of vitamin B6, folic acid, vitamin B12, pantothenic acid, and ascorbate (P < .002). Plasma concentrations of vitamin B6, vitamin B12, pantothenic acid, and ascorbate, but not folic acid, were markedly reduced in all calves during the BHV-1 infection (P = .001). The vitamin B6, pantothenic acid, vitamin B12, and ascorbate status of stressed calves may affect their immune response to vaccination or infection.
Vitamin B12 administration for milk fat synthesis in lactating dairy cows fed a low fiber diet.
Croom WJ, Rakes AH, Linnerud AC, Ducharme GA, Elliot JM
J Dairy Sci. 1981 Jul ; 64(7): 1555-60
Thirty lactating Holstein cows were in two groups in a study of effects of vitamin B12 injections on milk fat synthesis. All cows were fed a normal fiber diet for the first 28 days after calving and then adjusted gradually to a low fiber diet over the next 28 days. After adjustment to the low fiber diet, in a single reversal trail, cows received either 150 mg of vitamin B12 in the form of hydroxocobalamin intramuscularly every 7 days for 21 days or no treatment for 21 days. Daily milk yield (kg), percent milk fat, and milk fat yield (g) for the normal fiber, low fiber adjustment, low fiber control, and low fiber plus vitamin B12 treatments were 29.6, 3.59, 1192; 31.5, 2.85, 840; 28.0, 2.58, 715; and 28.8, 2.65, 760. Injections of vitamin B12 did not correct the milk fat depression associated with the low fiber diets. In addition, there was no consistent relationship between blood B12 and milk fat production. Milk fat production was highly correlated with molar percent acetate in the rumen .63 and with blood acetate concentration .74.
Dietary B vitamin needs of strains of pigs with high and moderate lean growth.
Stahly TS, Williams NH, Lutz TR, Ewan RC, Swenson SG
J Anim Sci. 2007 Jan ; 85(1): 188-95
Ten sets of 5 littermate pigs from each of 2 genetic strains were utilized to determine the impact of the dietary concentration of 5 B vitamins (riboflavin, niacin, pantothenic acid, cobalamin, and folacin) on growth from 9 to 28 kg of BW in pigs with high or moderate capacity for lean growth. All pigs (penned individually) were reared via a segregated, early weaning scheme, so that the lean growth potential of each strain could be expressed. The basal diet provided the 5 test vitamins at concentrations of total and estimated bioavailability equivalent to a minimum of 100 and 70%, respectively, of their estimated requirements (NRC, 1998) for 5- to 10-kg pigs. At a BW of 9 +/- 0.9 kg, pigs within each litter were allotted to the basal diet supplemented with sources of the 5 test vitamins equivalent to an additional 0, 100, 200, 300, or 400% (bioavailable) of the NRC requirements. Pigs from the high lean strain consumed less feed (P 470% of NRC, 1998) vs. moderate (270%) lean strain. Based on these data, the dietary needs for 1 or more of the 5 B vitamins are greater than current NRC (1998) estimates, particularly in pigs expressing a high rate of lean tissue growth. The greater need for these vitamins is not associated with greater dietary energy intake or body energy accretion rate but is potentially due to shifts in the predominant metabolic pathways.
Effects of reducing dietary protein, methionine, choline, folic acid, and vitamin B12 during the late stages of the egg production cycle on performance and eggshell quality.
Keshavarz K
Poult Sci. 2003 Sep ; 82(9): 1407-14
A series of four experiments was conducted to determine whether-shell quality during the late stages of egg production can be improved by using diets that are effective in reducing egg size. The experiments involved dietary manipulation of protein, methionine, choline, folic acid, and vitamin B12. In experiment 1, reducing dietary protein in combination of reducing the dietary methionine and choline or this diet without supplemental folic acid and vitamin B12 resulted in reduced egg weight and improved shell quality. However, egg production also was drastically reduced. In experiment 2, reducing the dietary level of methionine, without adding supplemental choline, folic acid, and vitamin B12 reduced egg size and improved shell quality, but egg production was reduced as well. In this experiment reducing the dietary methionine without supplemental folic acid and vitamin B12 reduced egg size and improved shell quality with no adverse effect on egg production. In experiment 3, reducing the dietary level of methionine and choline or reducing the dietary level of choline, folic acid, and vitamin B12 reduced egg size and improved shell quality without adverse effects on egg production. On the other hand, reducing dietary methionine, folic acid, vitamin B12, and supplemental choline reduced egg weight and improved shell quality but lowered egg production. In experiment 4, reducing dietary methionine together with reducing choline and vitamin B12 reduced egg size and improved shell quality with no adverse effect on egg production. The results of this series of experiments generally indicate that certain manipulations of the combination of methionine, choline, folic acid, and vitamin B12 have the potential to reduce egg weight and improve shell quality without affecting egg production during the latter stages of the egg production cycle.
Vitamin B12 responses to cobalt pellets in beef cows.
Judson GJ, McFarlane JD, Mitsioulis A, Zviedrans P
Aust Vet J. 1997 Sep ; 75(9): 660-2
OBJECTIVE: To assess the effectiveness of cobalt pellets in maintaining adequate vitamin B12 in beef cows on pasture of low cobalt content. DESIGN: A field experiment in a herd grazing cobalt deficient pasture. ANIMALS: Mature Murray Grey cows. PROCEDURE: Cows were given a single oral dose of 0, 1, 2 or 4 cobalt pellets (30 g pellets containing 30% by weight cobaltic oxide) with a selenium pellet and a grub screw. Samples of blood, liver, faeces and milk for chemical analysis were collected at intervals over a period of 2 years after treatment. RESULTS: A single cobalt pellet raised liver vitamin B12 concentration of cows above that of untreated cows for at least 28 weeks, and 2 or 4 pellets for 57 weeks. Plasma vitamin B12 concentration was an unreliable indicator of the effectiveness of cobalt pellet therapy. Milk vitamin B12 and faecal cobalt concentrations increased in response to cobalt pellet therapy. CONCLUSION: These studies show that one cobalt pellet will prevent vitamin B12 inadequacy in beef cows for between 28 and 57 weeks; two or four pellets will prevent inadequacy for 57 to 75 weeks. Milk vitamin B12 concentration may be a useful indicator of the effectiveness of cobalt pellets in increasing the vitamin B12 supply in lactating cows.
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flippy
Ecco i link:
http://kid.kibla.org/~marjan/vegan/v&m.htm
http://www.kravimin.si/si/konji/vitaredin/
Qui ce ne sono altri cercati su un motore di ricerca:
http://www.najdi.si/search.jsp?q=%C5%BE ... tamini+b12
http://kid.kibla.org/~marjan/vegan/v&m.htm
http://www.kravimin.si/si/konji/vitaredin/
Qui ce ne sono altri cercati su un motore di ricerca:
http://www.najdi.si/search.jsp?q=%C5%BE ... tamini+b12
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Marina Berati
- Messaggi: 478
- Iscritto il: mar ott 05, 2004 9:08 am
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veganitalia
- Messaggi: 153
- Iscritto il: mer dic 29, 2004 9:31 am
- Contatta:
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flippy
Infatti, MarinaMarina Berati ha scritto:Ehm, flippy, quando hai detto che i siti non sono italiani, pensavo fossero in inglese, io quella lingua li' non so nemmeno cosa sia...
Non ci capisco nulla, ovviamente. ;-(
Ciao...
Marina
Per questo ti ho chiesto se ti serve la traduzione. 
Rinnovo l'offerta, allora.
Ciao
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Marina Berati
- Messaggi: 478
- Iscritto il: mar ott 05, 2004 9:08 am
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flippy
Allora, nel primo link c’è solo una frase che parla di B12 aggiunta al bestiame (non credo serva il contesto, giusto? Perché parla solo di che cos’è la B12, perché occorre integrarla, che la producono i batteri, perché nonostante necessiti di quest’integrazione la dieta vegan è naturale…) e dice:
“Se pensate che la dieta vegan sia peggiore di quella carnivora ricordate che anche agli animali da allevamento viene aggiunta nel mangime la vitamina B12.”
Il seondo è semplicemente la pubblicità di un integratore alimentare per animali, come questo in inglese: http://yuanzheng.en.alibaba.com/product ... ction.html
Te lo linko perché è più completo, nel senso che spiega anche le conseguenze causate da una carenza di B12 negli animali da allevamento.
Il terzo dà dei risultati simili a questi:
http://www.google.it/search?hl=it&q=%22 ... tock&meta=
Scusa se ti ho dato gli ultimi 2 link in inglese, in italiano ho trovato ben poco…
Spero cmq di esserti stata utile, se serve altro o se ho sbagliato qualcosa chiedi pure.
“Se pensate che la dieta vegan sia peggiore di quella carnivora ricordate che anche agli animali da allevamento viene aggiunta nel mangime la vitamina B12.”
Il seondo è semplicemente la pubblicità di un integratore alimentare per animali, come questo in inglese: http://yuanzheng.en.alibaba.com/product ... ction.html
Te lo linko perché è più completo, nel senso che spiega anche le conseguenze causate da una carenza di B12 negli animali da allevamento.
Il terzo dà dei risultati simili a questi:
http://www.google.it/search?hl=it&q=%22 ... tock&meta=
Scusa se ti ho dato gli ultimi 2 link in inglese, in italiano ho trovato ben poco…
Spero cmq di esserti stata utile, se serve altro o se ho sbagliato qualcosa chiedi pure.